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  AcuraT

One error in what I wrote - the G70 is smaller than the Stinger. Sorry about that. Best of luck on your purchase, let us know what you think after a few months!

Genesis 2.0T opinions
  LectroFuel

I agree with AcuraT. The Stinger was never really unreliable, but had some panel and trim fitment issues and software glitches. The G70 May suffer a little bit from the fitment issues, but I wouldn't worry at all about it. Hyundai's are cheap to fix usually and one of the benefits with going with a Genesis is getting Hyundai reliability. I drove the Stinger as well and thought it was a great car with a small backseat.

Pretty much every review for the G70 has had overwhelmingly positive feedback I think.

Genesis 2.0T opinions
  Gary

I'm picking up my new G70 Elite AWD later this week. I'm hopeful for reliability, but a great warranty will help with any concerns. One correction to the above response. The G70 is smaller than the Stinger.

Genesis 2.0T opinions
  AcuraT

You posted twice. I answered in detail on the other copy. Best of luck.

Genesis 2.0T opinions
  AcuraT

That is an interesting car, because it shares it platform with the Kia Stinger which launched in 2018. So technically, while the first year of production for Hyundai it was built on another assembly line for Kia. In fact, there is an article on line compariing the two cars and the differences offered between the two of them (they are there, but not very great):
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-genesis-g70-vs-2018-kia-stinger-whats-the-difference/

In regards to reliablity, all we have to go on is the first year of the Kia Stinger. Since the reliablity of Kia and Hyundai is almost always lockstep together, it is pretty safe that one car's first year reliablity will indiciate the other car between the two brands (the engineering department is the one and same as they share engineering).

Since TrueDelta no longer tracks reliablity neither car is listed. All we have left is Consumer Reports which is biased statistically but besides that is not biased. According to first year reliablity, it lists average overall. It notes slight issues (more than 1% showing an issue, but less than 5%) with suspension, brakes and body integrity (squeaks and rattles). My guess is people drive these sports cars hard, and in doing so, knock a few parts a little loose while at the same time pushing the suspension and the brakes. I don't think the cars are inherently unreliable. In fact, for sports cars, they are probably very good reliablity. I say "probably" because there are two caveats. One is that we only have one year of reliablity from a sister brand. The other is it is a sister brand and does not necessarily mirror the G70 which is a little bigger than the Stinger. However it is probably close.

Last, it is a brand new car. So finding a used one for under $40,000 may be really tough to find. In fact, doing a national search for the G70 the cheapest used 2019 is about $43,000 and it has the wrong engine from what you want. If you really want a perfomance car, go for its sister - the two liter turbo Kia Stinger. You can get the 2018 for just under $30,000 anywhere in the country for 2018 - and it is well in your price range. That is if you really like this powertrain and platform. Since the handling is top notch (nearly as good as the european brands) for a lot less money. The powertrain and performance with the smaller engine is excellent as well. I test drove the Kia Stinger last year and it drove wonderfully, but was too small in the back seat for a family of four.

There are other options of course but others on this board can talk about them - I focused on your question. Best of luck.

Genesis 2.0T opinions
  LectroFuel

I think the top cars you should be looking at are the 2015 and newer Subaru Outback, 2014 and newer Forester, and 2017 and newer Toyota RAV4. The Subaru's have safety features available on mid level trims and is called EyeSight. The Toyota has every active safety feature standard on every trim. These systems have proved to be invaluable to almost everyone that owns them.

Next, these three cars are some of the most easy to live with. Big windows, easy to see out of, easy step-in height, reliable powertrains, and durable interiors.

These SUVs people are in love with are not very prone to flipping over like, say, an old trucky SUV like an old Explorer or Suburban. You should not worry about worry about flipping over since they all have electronic stability control. You would have to try to make one flip. With that said, a high center of gravity is not ideal for cornering, which is why I don't feel the love for SUVs. It just doesn't feel right to me.

I think an Outback with EyeSight is the best option for you. Get a 2015 to take advantage of depreciation. After that I'd take the RAV4. Also get a ramp for the dogs. My neighbor uses a ramp for her several dogs with her 2013 Explorer, which has a fairly normal loading height for an SUV. Seems to work very well and the dogs probably like it a lot too.

Good luck and please tell us what you buy!

BouvMobile
  mkaresh

The updated Mazda6 with the 2.5T is an impressive car. I'm driving one this week, and should have a review soon. I think I'll go drive the Accord again for a fresh comparison.

2018 Honda Accord Sport Review
  danlisahall

The loading height would be less with the Golf Alltrack but you would be sacrificing space and reliablity compared to the Outback. I was thinking that you could get the Alltrack for less, but to my surprise a quick check revealed it's starting price about a grand more then the OB! So that is yet another strike against the VW although overall its a very nice car.

Like AcuraT, I think your plumb out of other options in your price range. While they are clumpsy you could always get a ramp for the dogs. I'd say go for the OB (I did in 2015 & I'm liking it just fine, including the Eyesight and other safety features).

BouvMobile
  AcuraT

It really is not an SUV. Secret: The Outback, Legacy, and Forrester all are on the same platform now as they are all redesigned and share the same one. My parents last car was the Forrester but they moved to the Outback as they all got bigger when they went for a new car (last car was a 2003 and 2004 Forrester, they now own a 2015 and 2016 Outback).

According to the NHTSA the Outback and Forrester share the same rollover rating - 4 stars not 5. The Legacy get a 5. The reason is the height of the suspension. The legacy is lower to the ground (6.5 inches) to the outback and forrester (8.5 inches). Four is not good as five, but it is not unsafe. It depends on what you want - and you want a wagon.

I am guessing the Buick TourX will get a 5 as it is closer to the ground like the Legacy, but it has not been tested yet. The VW Alltrack gets four stars as well (higher off the ground).

The problem you are going to run into is there are not really any top notch reliable wagons anymore. I would say the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe which both can make it to 250,000 because they are Toyota powertrains - but they were discontinued in 2013 and still only get four stars on the NHTSA rollover. Some feel they are underpowered but they are very durable and come with AWD.

The biggest issue is the SUV craze - it has essentially put the offerings on wagons few and far inbetween. Most are just luxury models now, but Subaru and Buick offer relatively reasonably priced options. The most durable by far is those older Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibes, but you will have to go back 5 years to get those. After that you only have the Subaru and Buick with any chance of reliablity. You are probably right, the reliablity may have declined some since your Legacy wagon - but the problem is, there are not many options unless I am forgetting something besides the two listed.

I ran into the same issue when my about 12 year old Saab 9-3 with 180,000 on it had a tree fall on it. I did not really like any of the wagon options, so I caved in and bought a Buick Envision (2018) at a huge discount because GM launched a revised model in April 2018 (2019 model) right when this happened. So I bought to my shock a Buick SUV for $17,000 off for about $34,000 loaded instead of $52,000 list. I figure even if I have issues after 150,000 miles with that immense savings, it will take a lot of repairs to make up that price savings. It also drives pretty well and gets almost the gas mileage of the old Saab and I needed AWD as well. I live on a mountain now and the FWD cars with snow tires cannot get up it so for the last 9 years that car could not be driven if it snowed much at all when I moved to CT.

BouvMobile
  2932Pippiznewcar

The height of the cargo floor is a problem for the dogs but it is solvable. I wasn't sure if the Outback wasn't becoming a snowflake car as it got SUV'd. It wasn't showing up as reliable as it once was - Forester is higher rated but I wonder about the overall height and rollover potential.

BouvMobile
  AcuraT

Closest thing to what you have now is the Subaru Outback. Besides about 10% burning oil, they are very durable cars still. My parents own two of them and besides occasionally burning oil, they all last 200,000 miles. I am nearing 90,000 on my Legacy sedan and the only thing it does is burn oil - which I manage. No other issues and I have the loaded model.

The only thing is the floor is not quite as low as your old Subaru Legacy wagon so check that out. Want a lower floor? The only wagon that is similar to that Legacy is the Buick Regal TourX, and it is lower to the ground than the Subaru. Problem is it is probably out of your price range as it just launched last year and they are probably not that cheap. This will probably last 200,000 as well with only few more issues than a Subaru as GM sedan quality generally speaking has been decent as of late.

Struggling to come up with another option that meets the 200,000 miles rule. VW Alltrack meets your physical requirements but doubt it will give you 200,000 of troublefree miles for example. Maybe others have some other ideas.

One question, why not the Outback since you owned four Subaru's previously?

Best of luck.

BouvMobile
  LectroFuel

The SE rides stiffer than the LE, but it isn\'t uncomfortable. The SE handles better than the LE. The SE and XSE have the same suspension, but different sized wheels.

2015-2017 Camry SE - ride comfort?
  NormT

You might want to brush on Subaru oil consumption class action suit. Not unless you like tearing engines down and replacing piston rings.

This era also had head gasket problems too.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2011-15-subaru-oil-consumption-update-1420683845519/


Questions for Outback owners
  NormT

I owed $26k and the dealership paid me $28K on orginal $35K purchase price from two years ago. Plus the $2,800 sales tax bill was part of the loan.

With free oil changes it cost me only one I did myself at $30 during ownership.

medium size station wagon for long road trips
  LectroFuel

Nice review

Best Bang for the Buck in this category
  LectroFuel

So $14k in savings on a new Regal TourX, but how much money did it take to pay off the Envision? That will show how much the car held its value.

You should make a review on TrueDelta and post pics.

medium size station wagon for long road trips
  danlisahall

NormT: You're a true Buick Aficionado! Congrats on your new TourX, I enjoyed my test drive of the same and thought it was a great ride. Manyhappy trails to you!

medium size station wagon for long road trips
  LectroFuel

Out of the cars you mentioned, I would come down to the recently redesigned XC60 and X3. The X3 is getting very good feedback. The Volvo is likely going to have more problems than the BMW. BMWs have been pretty reliable since around 2014-15. The problems is that they are usually more expensive to fix than any other brand, though that sometimes depends.

It sounds like you have done some good research since you are considering the mainstream CX-5 with luxury cars. Not many people know to do that. IMO, it is an entry-level luxury CUV when you get the Signature trim. The Mazda will likely be BY FAR the cheapest car to drive and maintain out of the SUVs mentioned so far. It is also less likely to break down as often.

It depends on if you want to save some money and get a Mazda CX-5 or if you want a true luxury SUV. The Mazda is a very nice SUV, so you aren't going wrong either way. It MSRPs for about $17k below budget for the highest trim, so think of what you can do with that money.

When I spent a little bit of time in a CX-5, I wasn't a huge fan of the seats. We have a Mazda and have had a lot of experience with the infotainment system. It is not the best system, but it does have CarPlay and that is mostly what we use. The worst part of the infotainment system is that you can't use the touchscreen when the car is going above 3 mph. You need the knob, which isn't intuitive with CarPlay. As AcuraT said, Mazdas are satisfying to drive, especially with the turbo engine.

Maybe consider the XC40 (smaller) as well as the Audi Q5.

BMW X3
  NormT

We succumbed to a good Envision trade-in and $9,000 off a TourX. They paid off our Envision and then some which included the taxes included in the orginal loan. Almost $14,000 in savings for a new car.

The Regal TourX has a really smooth ride and with Active Noise cancelation is very quiet on the highway. The car-like driving dynamics as opposed to a compact SUVs makes for a much better ride quality. The awd system works really well on snow and is not as fun to slide as it is just so much composed compared to a SUV.

Good deals can be found on the Regal TourX down to the low $20's if you shop.

medium size station wagon for long road trips
  gondorian

Look seriously at a 2014 to 2017 honda odyssey, a lightly used 2014+ ford expedition or lincoln navigator, and also at a gently used full sized van like a mercedes sprinter and a ford transit.

Tall family, needs something like 2016 Tahoe, but don\'t need to tow anything
  gondorian

If you want comfort, seriously consider the Volvo wagons. Volvo has some of the best seats ever. Also drive the buick regal tourx and some german wagons. But volvo is the most comfortable. You should be able to get a lightly used V60 in your price range, maybe even a deal on a new one.

medium size station wagon for long road trips
  zcd1

Definitely add the Q5 to your shopping list. It's been not only reliable, but has had the highest customer satisfaction rating in the category for several years, according to CR.

BMW X3
  AcuraT

DanLisaHall gives good advice. I double checked with Consumer Reports and they agree for the most part with TrueDelta. They mention some squeaks and rattles early on in life on the BMW X3 which is pretty annoying, but nothing serious for the first five years of owership. 2018 was a remodel so it also mentions some minor engine issues for a few customers, usually concerning the fuel system - but that is it in five years going back to the last redesign (2014). Older then things start to go.

The X5 is reliable back to 2014, nothing comes up at all - not even on the redesign in 2014 except squeaks and rattles. Engine minor, climate controls, and some suspension issues crop up in 2014 but nothing else. These are both actually better among the BMW brand options.

Volvo XC60 according to CR is less reliable than the BMWs to my surprise. 2016, 2017, and 2018 are generally okay. But 2015 and earlier have drive system, fuel system, electrical system and power equipment issues. So they don't seem to last as long as BMW generally speaking. CR is a little off on showing problems as if 1% of the cars show an issue in year one, they start marking it down in a catagory. So it is overly senstive to concerns.

The Mazda CX-5 is very reliable according to CR. It has virtually no issues to its launch back in 2013. Only in 2013 does it show a few problems with brakes (and CR does not differentiate with brake work and brake pads, unfortunately) as well as body hardware issues (controls breaking inside the car). Besides those two things, all years from 2013 show no issues. So on straight reliablity, it beats all of the above.

Priorities: Safety & braking / Driving position & visibility / Reliability & durability

So for safety and braking, it depends how the car is equiped with anti-crash features. I have driven all four of these as I was recently in the market for a similar size SUV or mid-size sedan. Of course I recommend you drive them as well to see what you like.

BMW X3 - This has the best EPA gas mileage for its size at 24 mpg and is also fast, at about 6 seconds. Ride is also very comfortable and while (because it is smaller) better handling than the X5, I still felt the Volvo and Mazda were better to my surprise. Has the most luxiourous interior along with the X5. The gear selector is electronic, so if you adjust to that, you are golden. I think it uses an older infortainment system than the X5 as the terrible gesture control was absent and the menu structure was better than the X5.
BMW X5 - Has the best EPA gas mileage for this size SUV at 23 mpg and is the fastest in this group, at about 6.0 seconds to 60. Ride is very comfortable and suprisingly, the driving is the least inspired in this group. However very quiet and comfortable to be in. the infotainment system is the worst.It has a layered menu structure and busy control layout. For instance, resetting the trip odometer is buried in a menu, so it takes a few toggles to get to that. Worse, BMW has added gesture control, which is meant to let the driver make volume adjustments, or accept/reject calls with a wave of the hand. Except my wife in the passanger's seat could accidently activate the system. I would avoid it if you can - the gesture system is just awful.
Volvo XC60 - This probably is the best driving of the four. Very stiff ride as a result in comparsion. It steers very nicely. The steering has ideal effort and good feedback as well. About 6.5 second 0-60 so very fast. Did not like the infotainment system at all in this one.
Mazda CX5 -The CX-5 has a nimble feel. It steers nicely with a satisfying responsiveness and precision. The steering has ideal effort and provides good feedback. Around 7 seconds 0-60 with the turbo trim, so fast. Did not like the Infotainment system as it was pretty slow to respond (complexity reported in reviews did not phase me on this car, however).

As I wrote above, try these cars out yourself. I tried the 2018 but I don't think any of these were redeisgned extensively for 2019, as the X5 was new for 2018. Did I buy any? No. I looked at two more cars, the Lexus RX which I was tempted by as well as I was tempted by a massive discount on a loaded 2018 Buick Envision as it was more than $15,000 under list on it (since the changed 2019 came out in April) and that car handled better than the BMW as well (shockingly). I bought it last April and love it for its handling, gas mileage, acceleration, and relliablity although I only have 15,000 on it after 10 months - nothing has gone wrong. Best of luck with your choice, those are four pretty good cars in all aspects for at least 5 years, so it depends on what you like the most (and how long you want to keep it).

BMW X3
  danlisahall

Interesting selection of nice, higher end SUVs.Given that you have a pretty hefty budget I'd throw the Audi Q5 into the pool of potentials also. While all these models are popular here in the Pacific NW, I think I see more Q5s on the road than any of the others.

My initial thought was that surely the Mazda was going to be far better than the others. But looking at True Delta's data, the late model BMWs X3 and X5 both appear to be quite reliable, not too far from the CX5. Even Volvo XC60 appears to be relatively reliable in early years. However, when looking at models prior to 2014, the BMWs need much more attention.

You don't indicate how long you expect to keep your next rig. If less than 5 years you will be under warranty and reliablity may not be much of a factor. In that case I'd say drive them all and pick the one that feels best for your family. If long term reliablity is important, then the CX5 is the one to choose.

/ Lastly, if initial cost is a much of a factor in your decision, the Mazda wins by a significant margin.

We'd love to hear what you choose and why.

BMW X3
  mkaresh

We don't have many participants with the JUKE. But any reports of transmission failures we receive are posted to the site. The last time I checked CVT failures were most common for the 2009 and 2009 model years, when this transmission was first introduced in Nissan's small cars. They're less common for more recent model years, and especially at such low mileage.

CVT Failure
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