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  NormT

My area has prices the same as L.A. for new vehicles., or ot much of a discount. That is why I don't purchase my cars locally but have them shipped in. Carvana has a similar approach and Carmax offers shipping to your local store. So the residuals and resale won't change much base on region as proven my comparing two different zip codes for the same vehicle on KBB.com or NADA, doesnt matter if it is Buick or Lexus. The only thing that influences prices is demand and sometimes auction prices.

BMWx1 maintenance
  NormT


Edmund's longterm CX-5 driven in California has an underlying theme that it is slow. It maybe faster than your Prius but it is still slow.
"I got ready to pull back into traffic, traffic that was scooting along somewhere around 50 miles per hour. Although the CX-5 managed to get me up to flow-of-traffic speed, it didn't seem the least bit happy about it. The sluggish response to me laying into the gas was more than surprising ? it was disappointing. The CX-5 is fantastic in many respects. But getting up to highway speed quickly isn't one of them."
"...several of us are already disappointed in the CX-5's somewhat toothless acceleration and general non-zoominess, we're all furiously plastering the accelerator to the floor in an attempt to coerce any life out of this powertrain. That's not going to help our fuel economy."
"The CX-5's non-turbocharged four-cylinder has to work hard to keep up with traffic, and it doesn't have much left when you pull out to pass on the highway. Adding that turbo engine would make the CX-5 'feel alive' in a way that it doesn't now."
"push the CX-5 at all or try an aggressive lane change, the lack of power is very noticeable. The engine growls loudly, but the CX-5 does not move to match the sound. Also in terms of fuel economy, I was averaging just over 20 mpg, which falls short of the EPA ratings. Compared to the fuel economy you can get in the Honda CR-V, which feels larger and more powerful, the Mazda CX-5 doesn't compare."
  LectroFuel

There are too many variables to know when calculating resale value in order to be accurate. Location also matters because in my area, the European brands and Lexus do not usually depreciate as much as domestic luxury brands. In Ohio, I understand why Buicks would be more sought after and thus have a higher resale value. Residual value is the price of your car after your lease is up if you decide to buy it and it affects your lease payment. Resale value is how much the car is worth when you plan to sell it. Resale value has different percentages from residual value.

BMWx1 maintenance
  NormT

You can get residual values right from the bank where they are established and set or Edmund's has them too along with lease cash if any. The rate of depreciation is very much the same after 3-year mark on any mainstream vehicle. So you need to focus on purchase price and include incentives into the big picture of vehicle ownership because no one pays MSRP, so it is moot.

Edmund's has Lexus NX residual for 12 miles/36 months at 59% and the Buick Envision at 55% set by the bank. The 4% difference is about $1,500. This doesn't factor in $2,000 lease cash on the Buick.

Your website averages MSRP and average listing price over 12-years.

"We determine this by sorting on the difference between the full price paid and the average listing price the past twelve model years spanning all trim levels."

A vehicles life cycle is 5-years between redesign and model freshening. That 12 month average doesn't factor in price reductions at the end of cycle and the end of each model year.



BMWx1 maintenance
  LectroFuel

That doesn't explain the rate of depreciation, Norm. Find the actual percentage the value drops instead of comparing a few prices on cars.com. If you take into account the popular Buick incentives, of course that will seemingly decrease the depreciation. Without the incentives, comparing apples to apples, a 2.0T Envision would be at least $40k and can reach nearly $50k.

I'm using UsedFirst.comto compare resale value by brand (because there is no other website) and Lexuses decline in value 48.42% in five years. Buicks declined by 54.94% in five years. Mazdas declined 47.65% in five years. BMWs declined 57.51%.

I just brought up depreciation, but the OP didn't seem concerned about it. It might be better to buy the car that depreciates more since they are buying used. The Buick might win there.

Wow, I didn't know the Mazda was that fast. Car and Driver got 7.8 seconds with FWD. The gas mileage is below average, though, probably from the insulation they added.

BMWx1 maintenance
  mkaresh

The CX-5 isn't quick, but it's not slow, either. 0-60 actually in the 8s. That said, it doesn't accelerate like a BMW.

BMWx1 maintenance
  NormT

Buick doesn't hold it's value is a fallacy. A 2016 Envision 2.0T was going for $30K on autotrader when new. A Lexus NX200t was $10,000 more at $40,000 similarly optioned with AWD, Nav, leather(not Lexus fake leather). Today, under 40,000 miles the Envision is $26K while the Lexus NX plummets to $29K.

The Lexus drops $11,000 in two years while the Buick holds it's value better only dropping $3K. This all according to cars dot com, new and used.

BMWx1 maintenance
  LectroFuel

The Lexus NX and Buick Envision are the most reliable compact luxury SUVs. Except for reliability, they don't really perform better than the competition in any one area, but they are at least decent to drive. Both of them are tuned for luxury and not sportiness like the BMW. Buick doesn't hold its value as well, so you may be able to get a good deal on one of those used. Not everyone likes the Buick badge, but that is an opinion.

When someone asks me what used luxury SUV they should buy, I always say the Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring is the best value. It really does feel like an entry-level luxury SUV in the GT trim. The only thing that might hold you back is the Mazda badge and the lack of power compared to the turbocharged competitors. Since it doesn't have a prestigious badge, the price is very low. Test drive a used 2017 CX-5 Grand Touring and see if it is right for you. I would totally get this over the Lexus and Buick. The CX-5 has had top-notch reliability scores every year since it debuted. You can get a Certified Pre-Owned CX-5 to get a 7 year/100k mile powertrain warranty.


BMWx1 maintenance
  Sharmila.das

Thanks everyone.
I am not sure why the header in my message says Serbia--I am in San Jose, CA!

So in terms of small luxury SUVs, what would be your the recommendations? I'm looking for low maintenance costs and safety/reliability.
thanks!

BMWx1 maintenance
  NormT

I guess you missed this part of the above article, "While the problem may be more common in those circumstances, it also has been reported in warmer temperatures. In the NHTSA database, there are accounts from California, Kentucky, Oregon, Tennessee, and Virginia?as well as colder-weather states such as Maine, Minnesota, New York, and Wisconsin. And CR has heard from CR-V owners not just in Minnesota but also in Delaware, New Mexico, and even Texas."

Serbia temperatures range from 30-70?F and not a good environment for Honda 1.5t on short drives. Plus the repair rate on Truedelta for the CR-V has been higher than say a Chevy Equinox which also costs $7,000 less than the Honda. I wouldnt recommend the CR-V to anyone unless they knew what they were getting into with the engine.

Other article comment sections say the forums are reporting similar problem with the non-turbo 2 4l.

BMWx1 maintenance
  LectroFuel

But the problem only happens if your driving pattern involves many short trips in very cold weather. If this does not apply to you, then I don't see much of a reason not to buy it. Honda is working on a fix to release in mid-November, probably for free. That guy who traded for a RAV4 will hopefully get his $7k reimbursed.

If you want some more power, a 2.5T CX-5 is projected to be released for the 2019 model year. The naturally aspirated 2.5 base engine is pretty slow, on par with the class of around 9 seconds 0-60.

FWIW, two of my neighbors have an X1. The 3 year old one sounds like metal in a blender when the engine is started. The other one is probably five years old and has blue smoke coming out of the exhaust, which means it is burning oil or the turbo is failing.

Even if the CR-V has this problem, its maintenance costs will be no match for BMW's.

BMWx1 maintenance
  NormT

The realible Honda's are starting to fade. I'd hold off any direct injectedHonda 4-cylinder because of fuel dilution of the motor oil until the root cause is identified.


Honda CR-V Affected by Engine Troubles
  LectroFuel

BMWs are some of the most expensive cars to maintain, so go with something else if you want reliability. Get a 2017 CX-5 or a CR-V if you want something faster. The CX-5 is more reliable, slower, but more luxurious. I'm not a fan of the X1 seats. They are some of the hardest seats I've ever sat in. BMW nickel and dimes you for every little option.

If the BMW you are looking at is CPO, then maybe keep it until the warranty is up. It will likely start having major problems at 75k miles.

BMWx1 maintenance
  LectroFuel

I drove a Bolt, not a Volt, over the weekend and liked it a lot. The Volt and Bolt make a lot of sense, but which one you buy depends on your commute and ability to charge. Most people fall in love with the EV torque and instant throttle response. The problem with the Bolt is that it doesn't have a charging network and the interior is very cheap including the seats. The 2019 Volt has a lot of new important improvements.

would you buy volt again?
  LectroFuel

You'll probably be able to find more Ford Flexes, which are the newer versions of the Taurus X. Don't get the Freestar as those had a CVT that was prone to failing. I would imagine the Taurus X would handle snow better than the Flex because it looks to have more ground clearance.

If you want a smooth ride, I'd take the Matrix and Vibe off the list because those don't ride any better than the xB. The Prius v sounds tinny when you drive it. The ride is relatively comfortable, but has more road noise than the regular Prius. It will be quieter than the Matrix and xB for sure, but the Ford will feel more substantial probably; especially the Flex.

I don't see why the Outback hasn't been mentioned more. Since you don't drive much, I wouldn't worry about the oil consumption or head gaskets blowing. They have a very soft ride compared to most economy cars.

Also, the Lexus RX can be found for around $10k for the 2006-2008 years. They will last for at least 200k miles with maintenance and as Consumer Reports says about these years, "the RX offers a cabin that's just as quiet and plush with the best of the best." It is a traditional SUV like a RAV4 so it will be easy to get into and out of. Very comfortable seats as well. Don't get the hybrid model.

The Prius batteries typically fail at around 200k miles. My battery lasted for 240k, but I live in mild temperatures. That said, I didn't baby the car at all. Now it has almost 260k miles with 0 engine problems ever. The battery is about $2k for a remanufactured or a little more for a new one. It is easy to DIY it, too. It is a matter of replacing a few battery cells in front of the trunk and is easy to access. The warranty for a Prius battery is 8 years or 100k miles in most states. Some states have a longer warranty. The Prius v's MPG is better in the city than the highway, but it is still better than almost every gas car on the highway at the time. You'll pay half as much for gas compared to the Taurus X and a little more than half of your xB.

Don't buy the HHR. There is really nothing appealing about that car.

Long trip comfort with leg room
  AcuraT

I asked him to check. He got back to me via text message today. No rust. None anywhere on the car.

He did give me a rundown of everything that has gone wrong. I only knew about the control arms. He now has 150,000 on the car and it is still going. The AC actuator just went on the car at 145,000. He also mentioned that the tranmission went in the first 20,000 miles (I was not aware of that either) but that was fixed under warranty.

Besides those three concerns, he has not had any of the other issues you had Micheal. Overall he likes the car and it has been durable once the transmission was fixed early on. He is like me - he tends to keep his cars about 200,000 before trading them in (he also has a 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix with over 100,000 on it as well).

Long trip comfort with leg room
  mkaresh

He might just not be looking in the right places for the rust. You have to look under the car or in the rear wheel wells. Also under the rubber gasket on the leading edge of the rear wheel openings.

Long trip comfort with leg room
  AcuraT

I should have mentioned my friend in NJ bought one new back in 2008 and loves his after 10 years and 120,000 miles. He has had an issue with the the front control arms as well but he has not had the other issues Michael mentions. Michigan is very severe in their winters which maybe why he has rust issues - in NJ he is not experiencing that problem. No transmission issues either on his Ford, but since he uses it for a lot of long trips (about 50% of the mileage) and not for local stop and go traffic, he has a lot less wear and tear than probably most people.

I believe if you test drive the Ford Taurus X and the Toyota Prius you will note the Ford is much bigger and has a lot more space and will ride a lot better than the Toyota. I have driven my friend's Taurus X and it does drive well, but the Prius is just a different class of car and cannot offer the same ride quality. One thing I should mention about the Ford is that it is a little like a crossover and not quite a wagon you are looking for, but it does drive like a car (and you will find it particularly cheap because of its limited run and there are many of them for sale).

Long trip comfort with leg room
  mkaresh

We've owned a Taurus X since 2010. With two of the three kids now in college, we might sell it next spring.

They were made for two model years, 2008 and 2009.

I find the seat and ride very comfortable for long trips. For some people, though, the footwells are too narrow. The second row is mounted high off the floor and is also very comfortable.

All of the seats--even the front passenger seat--fold easily to open up a lot of cargo space. Even with the third seat up there's a lot of space behind it, with a deep cargo well that other crossovers usually don't have.

Fuel economy is not good, mid-teens in the suburbs and low-20s on the highway.

The driving position is mixed. You sit very high above the instrument panel, and the windows are large, so outward visibility is excellent for this sort of vehicle. But the controls and nav display (if equipped) are thus mounted far below your sightlines, which can be unsafe.

With regard to reliability, I've had to deal with underbody rust (removed it and applied Chassis Saver) and worry about the transmission, which sometimes suffers from shift flares. Change the fluid at least once every two years. The front control arms or their bushings have had to be replaced twice. The PTU seal is prone to leaking in all AWD Ford crossovers of this era. Ours was fixed when the car was still under warranty. Had to replace the trans cooler / AC condenser due to a leak. But the engine seems very solid. No issues with it at all in 112,000 miles.

Prices are low. We might find that the car is worth so little that we might as well keep it for when we occasionally need it. Then, though, I'd worry about the brakes rusting up, but this is a concern for any vehicle parked for extended periods of time during the Michigan winter.

Long trip comfort with leg room
  Dougmany

Great. Thank you. My mom has a Matrix and I like it but I think I want something bigger. The only other one on your list I have driven is the HHR. I remember it having some really annoying visibility issues both out the winshield and around the pillars. My wife really likes the Prius V but I think you loose some of the benefits of a hybrid with mostly freeway travel. I probaby have to keep it on my list because of her but if it has battery issues, I want to avoid it. I think you are onto something with the Taurus X. That sounds like what I am looking for.

Thank you.

Long trip comfort with leg room
  AcuraT

This is a challenge. Not all that many wagons are out there that are decent for $10,000 or less. Some of these suggestions you may not be able to get at your price point.

First thing that comes to mind is a used Toyota Prius V. It is a wagon and I am sure others are going to warn you of the older model's battery pack. Yes, that is a concern. But if you can find a good one this may be a decent bet. Challenge is, below $10,000 near me I can find one from 2012 with 114,000 on it ($9,890). Battery pack should still be fine and you probably can get another 50,000 or so on it before that would have problems (probably, no guarantee). Test drive for comfort - some like it, others don't.

Older are the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix twins made out of Fremont, California at an old GM plant as part of the GM/Toyota partnership. They are pretty reliable and durable but based on the Toyota Corolla they are not the most comfortable, so definately test drive one on a highway to see if you like it. The newest I can find is a 2010 with 75,000 miles for only $7500 (FWD). It actually is not a bad choice at all if you can deal with the ride.

Subaru Crosstrek is out as it is too new and there are no units close to $10,000 yet that are old enough to qualify. However the Subaru Outback is a possiblity. A 2005 near me is going for $7985 with only 48,485 on the odometer. This car maybe even better than the used Prius because it cannot have battery pack issues. Although the engine might burn oil and you will have to monitor it (this impacts about 10-15% of all Subarus built due to the boxer engine design - also impacts Porsche). I found this car to be comfortable although I did not buy one (I bought a Legacy sedan instead later on).

Honda Crosstour is an AWD hatchback that may fit the bill. Also fairly reliable since it was not a success and discontinued, you can get one with about 100,000 miles for about $9900 (a 2012 near me with 102,000 goes for that). Pretty comfortable car which I have driven.

Harder to find but also a fit is the Acura TSX Sportwagon. There are not many of them (they sold mostly sedans) but near me there is one 2011 with 131,000 miles for $9800. These probably are going to be higher mileage and older because there are so few of them out there. It is more sporty than comfortable, but not uncomfortable to drive.

VW Jetta Sportswagon is a possiblity, but I would avoid it as it is not that reliable and in the price range you are looking, it would probably be full of issues that you would want to avoid.

Chevrolet HHR is an odd car made by GM that also probably won't be all that reliable and I would avoid. It also is a small wagon so you probably won't like it.

Although they stopped making them in 2008, there are plenty of them on the market and available. The Ford Taurus X is a possibility. It is pretty reliable (according to True Delta which agrees with Consumer Reports) and since it is discontinued is not that expensive. One with 77,000 is going for $6500 near me (and there are a lot more 2008s on the market for about that). This maybe your best bet of all as it is comfortable to drive.

So there are a lot if you are willing to go used and go old in this category. Personally I think the Ford Taurus X fits what you want - price, low mileage, comfortable ride, plenty of room to carry things for camping, car platform, and even fairly reliable (you did not ask for, but it offers it for its age).

Best of luck.


Long trip comfort with leg room
  goldmember

Damn. How could anyone buy a BMW after reading this review. I still cannot bring myself to buy anything but Japanese cars (Toyota specifically.) I just don't have the wallet for other brands.

Thanks for such an in-depth review.

A Brand in Turmoil and desperate to preserve their identity (or find it)
  NormT


This Chevy Volt Has 400,000 Miles On Odometer With No Noticeable Battery Degradation
  LectroFuel

The new and old Golfs were pretty unreliable. The Mazda3 is probably the best choice, especially with five grand. If you ever drive where they salt the roads, only get a Mazda3 2010 or newer. The first gens rusted easily. The Mazda3 has a stiff ride, but it is engaging.

I would skip the Prius unless the HV battery was replaced with a new one recently. The engines are bulletproof though. It doesn't check the box of needing to be fun, but can fit a lot of stuff in the trunk and it is fuel efficient and reliable. The ride is soft and handling is very disconnected from the road. Get a 2004 or newer with side airbags. High mileage newer ones are also very good because age hurts the Prius more than miles.

The Honda Fit is reliable like the Prius, but more engaging. It is much less refined however. MPG is not as good as the Prius. You need to take a look at the inside of the car because the outside gives you the wrong impression of how much space there is inside. Not a good car for long highway drives as road noise leaks into the cabin a lot. Easy to park.

The Toyota Matrix, Pontiac Vibe, and Kia Soul should also be looked at if you don't like the ones mentioned so far. The Matrix and Vibe might even be better for you than the Fit. The Matrix and Vibe are the exact same car with different badges made at the same factory.

Fun, reliable and fuel efficient car with cargo space
  AcuraT

While true in this case with the Toyota it is not. It does not have to do with the location, but it definately has to do with the design of the transmission.

Looking for a good daily driver