Is the Kia Niro a hero?

As I would expect from you - you well researched what you want and have valid reasons for wanting it. As you stated the second year of production (2018) got rid of the first year concerns.

Unfortunately, both PHEV and EVs don't keep their value particularly well. There are many reasons but the key one among them is all the government tax discounts and price cuts by the manufactuers mean when you buy the car, the actual cost is depreciated from the start. Since you are buying it for less, it is worth less - and it just drops from there below the MSRP. Changing technology also kills the value. Just look at the difference in value of a used Nissan Leaf Generation 1 and Generation 2. So in that itself is the only reason I see why you would not want to get one - because IF you plan to replace the car in a few years and not keep it for the life of the car. You did not mention how long you plan to keep it, so I have to bring that up.

There are a couple of sites I like that give a good overview of why these types of car depreciate.

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/03/depreciation-electric-cars-today-tomorrow-2020/

https://www.befrugal.com/tools/electric-car-calculator/

The first gives a very good detailed explanation behind the many reasons of depreciation. The second tells you how to calculate how much you can save over a regular gas engine.

When I bought a car last year I was tempted to buy a PHEV but massive discounts on a light hybrid (that just turns off at red lights) made the break-even on the initial cost over a 21 year period. It just cost me too much to not go with the light hybrid as I would never get that back (I keep cars as long as 14 years but not 21). Best of luck!

Actually, I am not Lectrofuel but I would be interested in his opinion - the three of us spend time on here answering questions when we can.

It depends on your driving to make the economics of the surcharge paying for an electified car work in your favor. You are right, you lose money on any car you buy - you just lose a little more according to the sources including that first link I sent going the EV or PHEV route. You are also right, going slightly used on one of those cars you get a huge markdown as the resale market is terrible.

Totally agree with you - the next big advance coming in the next 5 to 15 years is the self driving car as well as those who won't even own a car and just use Uber/Lyft/Name your driving service. Time is running out for those who like to drive unmonitored/unautomated but not all that soon. Future generations will look in the history books of those who drove their own car - probably in 100 years or so. I do think it is going to take some time to get to that fully automated point because the technical difficulties involved as well as the cost right now to make such a self-driving car work. Surprislngly GM with SuperCruise is the forefront of what you can buy right now, and it is a $10,000 option only on a couple of Cadillacs so far. Tesla is trying as well and they are even more expensive.

The stuff being done by Cruise (GM and Honda self driving division in California) and Google (Waymo starting testing in Arizona later this year with the public) is so expensive and experimental you cannot even buy it right now. And the PR disaster for Uber in this area because they were rushing to catch up forced them out of this catagory for now. Even Apple gave it up because they saw no hope of catching up - or doing something different that made sense. The European companies are banding together to try to make a run at it but they are way behind the American firms and surpisingly, the far east is even further behind in this catagory as the only news I have heard is that Toyota is investigating an all-electric car but is quite some distance away from selling one.

Let us know what you decide, I am sure it will be interesting. Like I posted, I took a small step in the hybrid car getting one that turns off at stop lights that has AWD. My trouble is I do live in CT on a mountain so getting a FWD battery car won't work in the winter even with snow tires since I tried that with my old Saab and I could not get up the unplowed road to my home. I am sure a battery powered car won't do it either. Whenever I leave CT I can reconsider.

Personally, I would be scared if I needed to travel further than the EV range in the Niro EV because there is no supercharger network. I wouldn't be able to take road trips. My wife went three days without charging overnight last week and realized on her way to work she would need to stop at a supercharger to be safe and not get range anxiety. She only had a 40 mile estimated range and 30 miles of freeway to get home. There is no charging network except ChargePoint and a few smaller brands for non-Tesla EVs.

If you plan to not drive far everyday then both the PHEV and EV have their advantages: The EV will be all electric all the time and the PHEV will stay on EV mode for a short time, possibly meaning you won't have to fill up with gas nearly as often.

I would say this comes down to your preference. You can't really go wrong with either. The question is whether you really want a true EV and never have to fill up with gas, get instant torque, and pay a few grand more and miss out on memory seats.

EVs and PHEVs depreciate more than most gas cars as AcuraT said. However,Teslas hold their value 2 times better than the average gas car.

Also something to think about is your electricity rates and if you have time of use (TOU) plans. Here in CA we have special time of use electricity plans specifically for people with EVs. Charging at night costs 9 cents per kw/h and from 4pm to 9pm costs 54 cents per kw/h. Without these plans, it would be useless to own an EV as you would never get your ROI. I learned this the hard way after the first month of owning the Tesla because our electric bill was over $600.

I couldn't end this without telling you to test drive a Tesla Model 3 before your Kia purchase. There have been several posts online of people saying they were not in the market to purchase a car, and they unexpectedly driving out of the Tesla store with a new Model 3. I would describe the driving experience as otherworldly. It is such an amazing car. The only thing it is missing for you is it is not a crossover. It is pretty low to the ground, so that may be a deal breaker. It has some of the best seats I have ever sat in (many car reviewers have said the same). 12 way power seats for both front seats, so the lumbar adjuster has 4 ways of adjustment. The steering wheel tilts and telescopes by power and gets out of the way when the car is in "Easy Entry" mode. 240 miles is the base model's range. The base model also has Autopilot standard, so the car drives itself under supervision. Along with that is all the active safety features you expect. The car gets many software updates, so it always feels fresh and interesting. Cargo space is very good for a sedan because you get the frunk as well as the massive under-floor storage well in the trunk. It just feels like the future, but in a really good way. Delivery time is only 2 weeks now and their build quality problems are much less frequent. This video does a good job summarizing everything.

You can't really go wrong with either the Kias or Tesla. I just think the Tesla is a great deal at $39k before incentives. And it comes well equipped on the base model. The Kia EV is similarly priced, but with more incentives.

I would avoid the old Leaf. They have a problem with battery degradation. The old Soul EV might be good, but the range is short. I would recommend a Chevy Volt as well. GM hasn't embraced safety features much, but you may want to see if you can get a good deal on those before they are off the lots forever if they aren't already. Depreciation will be a problem with those I would guess.

A note on the Michelin Energy Saver A/S tires: I have those on my Prius and while they allow the car to get good MPG, they are pretty loud in my opinion. The amount of low rolling resistance tires on the market is kind of small, so there wasn't much I had to choose from. Tires can make or break your MPG. Again, I learned this the hard way with my first Prius.

Congrats danlisahall! Good choice. Hopefully with more and more hybrids and EVs coming out we will see more tires focused on fuel efficiency while preserving ride, handling, quietness, etc. I have a friend with a 1st gen Volt and he didn't change his oil for the first 50k miles because he uses the engine so rarely. I told him he should change it because it isn't good for it to sit for too long (hence why we have 6 month intervals typically), but I could be wrong. I wouldn't recommend it.

Congrats on the good choice danlisahall. I hope you get what you want out of that choice, thank you for sharing.

I have a friend with a Volt who changes his oil every 7500 miles with limited engine use and it works fine after 100,000 miles. He owns the 2013 so now it is 6 years old and still going strong. I have another friend with a newer Volt (2017) who changes it at the same interval as recommended and has no issues. I don't take chances delaying the oil change on any car I own, but then again, I have never owned a full hybrid. I also don't feel the urge to replace any car before 10 years and 140,000 miles at minimum, unless it is having severe problems.