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Fun, reliable, 4 door sedan with AWD and 6 cylinder motor.

The Right Car for Me | TrueDelta

dchaitu

I'm currently driving an Audi Q5 3.0T APR Stage 1, and I'm in the market for a sedan that has similar performance. I'm looking at 2016 model years CPOs of Audi A6, Jaguar XF, Lexus GS 350, and Volvo S90. Reliability, handling, and performance are important, and I appreciate your feedback!

Priorities: Ride smoothness / Quietness / Reliability & durability

Need minimum of 4 seats

Will consider both new and used cars
Maximum mileage: 35000
Maximum age: 3 years

Maximum price: US $ 37000

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Response from danlisahall

12:11 pm June 28, 2018

Since reliablity is important to you I'd discard the Volvo & Jag.

Generally speaking the Audi will out perform the Lexus by a small margin, but the Lexus will outlast the Audi. Consumer reports gives the Audi higher marks for comfort.

If you are happy with your Q5, you will probably be happy with the A6 unless reliablity is your numero uno concern. However, if you tend to not keep vehicles past their warranty periods reliablity becomes less important.

I'd go with the A6

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Response from ejulien6

2:09 pm June 28, 2018

Two other contenders to check out would be the 2016-2018 Infinity Q50 Sportas well as the 2016-2018 Buick Regal GS. Both models come in AWD,V6 engines and are nicelyequipped.

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Infiniti Q50
Buick Regal

Response from Movovr

6:15 pm June 28, 2018

Considered the Acura TSX A-Spec? Looked at one recently and it was pretty darn nice and met all the criteria listed.

Also, as others have said, I would avoid the European brands due to reliability issues and costs. The Lexus would be my first choice from your list, and I may even look at the hybrid version as I believed that it had more HP compared to the non-hybrid version.

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Acura TSX
Lexus GS

Response from LectroFuel

7:49 pm June 28, 2018

If you don't keep your car for that long, an S90 would be a great car. If you do want reliability (like you said), I would throw away the Jag and Volvo and get a Lexus GS. The GS is kind of outdated.

The Audi isn't that reliable, but better than most luxury cars.

Another car to put on your list is the Buick Regal GS. It is reliable and pretty nice. It is a very heavy car for what it is however and it feels like it when you corner.

I would suggest a new 2019 Toyota Avalon, but it is only FWD. Very nice car, better than the Lexus GS or previous ES. It is actually fun to drive this time.

Perhaps a 2017 Audi A4 Quattro would be better. It has more modern technology than the A6 and is very nice. It handles better than the A6 and has been pretty reliable.

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Lexus GS
Buick Regal
Audi A4 / S4 / RS4

Response from ejulien6

9:23 am June 29, 2018

Response from dchaitu

12:00 pm June 29, 2018

Thank you for the wonderful responses.

  1. Audi A6: This is my top pick; I like the technology and have experience with both the motor and the ZF transmission coming from the Q5; I have driven many of the cars suggested below, and this motor and transmission are simply in a class of its own. I would expect the handling of the A6 to be significantly better than my Q5 though, the Q5 handles like a boat taking on water.
  1. Lexus GS: This is my second choice, but I'm kind of disappointed by the 6-speed transmission. I have driven an RX-350 and it carries the same motor/transmission; it wasn't very enthusiastic in performance. The GS's rear tires steering is very interesting though and from a reliability perspective, the Lexus would win hands down.
  1. Jaguar XF: The car looks like a stunner but reliability is a concern. I also read the engine/transmission aren't as slick as the Audi's. Nonetheless, I get a 2016 CPO, that extends the warranty to 2022, would it be a good buy?
  1. Infiniti Q50: My previous leased car I turned in this month is an Infiniti Q50 Hybrid. The Q50 has gobs of torque and gets off the line like a bat out of hell, but doesn't really have the refinement of the Audi or the Lexus. The AWD has this weird kick every time the car slips on ice or snow. The trunk is ridiculously small, and run-flat tires finally killed the car for me ? I went through 6 tires (sidewall flats and bubbles) in 3 years of ownership.
  1. Acura TSX A-Spec: I'm not really into the design of the older Acuras, would pick a Lexus in a heartbeat. I definitely dig the redesigned 2018 models though, but I'm more interested in a CPO.
  1. Buick Regal: To be honest, I prefer Japanese/German over Buick/Lincoln/Cadillac.
  1. Toyota Avalon: I liked the Avalon, it looks very nice; lack of AWD killed it though. Winter tires can be a good alternative, but I have no space to store a set of tires.
  1. Audi A4: The S4 would actually be a good alternative, but the A6 has the same motor with better tech/features/space.
  1. Ford Fusion: Isn't Ford discontinuing all their cars?

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Audi A6 / S6
Lexus GS
Infiniti Q50

Response from AcuraT

12:55 pm June 29, 2018

The answers above are great, but to answer your question, "Isn't Ford discontinuing all of their cars?" The answer is no. They are discontinuing most, but not all, of their cars in America (rest of world, they will still be sold).

In America, the plan is to continue developing and redesigning the Mustang and Focus for America. The Fusion is going to be phased out in America at the next redesign cycle, but sold elsewhere where sedans are more popular.

Hope that helps.

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Response from ejulien6

2:31 pm June 29, 2018

Response from LectroFuel

5:23 pm June 29, 2018

I forgot to mention the Kia Stinger! It seems like the perfect fit. The shape of it is like the Audi A7 or Tesla Model S, a fastback. The driving dynamics are very good and the interior is nice. It has a 10 year/100k mile warranty whether you buy new or CPO. The GT2 AWD trim is probably the one for you. I drove one and was very impressed by it. Before you knock it because it is a Kia you should drive one. It should be pretty reliable. It has a lot more usable cargo space than any sedan.

The Genesis G80 is also a good one. You could get a Genesis by Hyundai for very cheap since it has a Hyundai badge and they are almost the same car. They are definitely more comfortable than sporty, so I'm not sure it it is for you. It is one of the few reliable luxury cars on the market however. I really liked it when I drove it. They have the same warranty as the Kia.

I agree with you on buying a car from the Detroit 3 brands; I'm not a fan of them either. I have always thought the A6 was more of a big luxury cruiser and not a performance car, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't think the Jaguar would be a good buy. I had a Jaguar that I sold the month the 3 year warranty was up. I liked the car, but couldn't stand spending $500 every month to retrieve the windows that always fell into the doors and the water pumps that would explode. Resale value is terrible, too. The Lexus seems like a nice balance of luxury and fun (and reliability), but a little more comfort-minded.

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Kia Stinger
Genesis G80

Response from NormT

7:40 am June 30, 2018

Skip this current generation of Stinger. Many review complain about noise levels and the GT actually creaks from it's frame twisting. See YouTube review by Savagegeese is a track oriented reviewer but has some good opinion on design of interior and ergonomics along with putting each car he reviews on a lift and looking and dissecting what the manufacturer put into the car.

The 2017 and earlier Buick Regal 2.0T AWD has a similar Haldex4 system you are used to it with a torque vectoring rear differential. For about $400.00 a ecu tune on 92 octane is good for about 350 lb-ft of torque and is a wheel in wolf's clothing with its Opel Insignia heritage. You should be able to find them for $20K or less and go test drive the AWD on a rainy day as it will prove to be fun. The GS variant will be .ore expensive but have adjustable dampers and stickier rubber that will eclipse most cars in handling tests in Motor Trend figure-8 exercise.

If you want more flash the Cadillac ATS is one of the better handling, RWD chassis today. The Borg Warner AWD has a slight rear bias and is a hot on slippery surfaces.

The CTS is also built from the same chassis as the ATS and offers 3 6l AWD or 2.0T.

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Buick Regal
Cadillac ATS
Cadillac CTS

Response from LectroFuel

12:46 pm July 1, 2018

That isn't a good reason to not buy the Stinger. He got an early build and they have probably worked out some of the bugs by now. Besides, this guy said he prefers Japanese/German over Buick/Lincoln/Cadillac. Cadillacs aren't particularly reliable either.

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Response from NormT

7:32 am July 2, 2018

Stop making excuses for the poor recommendation of the Stinger. The Savagegeese YouTube review was one month ago and a press car, so it is the best Kia has right now.

Over half the owners have issues with Stinger quality in a poll.

https://stingerforum.org/threads/poll-stinger-owner-initial-quality.3713/

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Response from mkaresh

2:48 pm July 2, 2018

Response from LectroFuel

4:30 pm July 2, 2018

And he said at the end of the video that he liked the car and he was blown away that it was Kia's first try at a GT car as it was very good. The only things he didn't were the rattles and the fake hood vents. It's like a cheaper Audi A7 or a performance-oriented model of the Buick Regal Sportback.

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Response from NormT

12:16 am July 5, 2018

Or Tesla who are quick to fix.



Stopping Distance Retest After an ABS Firmware Update - 2017 Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test

Stopping Distance Retest After an ABS Firmware Update - 2017 Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test

We took our 2017 Tesla Model 3 back to our test track to remeasure its emergency stopping distance after Tesla issued a firmware update to correct a deficiency in this area.


Supposedly they are cutting corners but with over the air updates the concern is moot within a day or so.

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Response from NormT

1:57 pm July 10, 2018

Response from LectroFuel

6:19 pm July 10, 2018

And that proves Michael's point that Kia finds problems with their cars quicker and creates TSBs quickly. This Motor Trend editor also expects to be served by a nicer dealer despite driving a car from the same brand that makes the Rio. Doesn't seem like a valid argument, but he said his experience was positive. It's good that Kia hasn't had many powertrain problems with the Stinger in its first year and just the same rattle. CNET also had the same liftgate rattle as Motor Trend in their long term test.

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Response from NormT

6:59 pm July 10, 2018

if it was a quick fix it shouldn't been released out of beta testing. No reason to pay $50,000 for a Kia Stinger that is half baked

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Response from LectroFuel

7:16 pm July 10, 2018

Having a trunk rattle doesn't mean it is half-baked. It's the first model year and during that first model year, every automaker has to sort out the bugs. There's no better way to test what breaks on a car easily than releasing it to the public. No torture test performed by Kia would be sufficient because testing only a few cars probably wouldn't reveal anything involving the problems with the car.

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Response from NormT

9:52 pm July 10, 2018

Response from NormT

10:30 am August 24, 2018

"Interior
"I like so many things about the Stinger, but the audible creaks in the interior are bumming me out. I'm no stranger to this sort of thing. My own 2013 Volkswagen GTI has been creaky from the get-go. In both cases, it drives me nuts. The Stinger's creaks seem to be concentrated around the front windows and especially the sunroof. They're subtle. But drive down one of L.A.'s many decaying streets with the stereo off, and you can't miss 'em. Having just spent a lot of time with our creak-free 2018 BMW 540i, it's a difference that really stood out to me. Otherwise, the transition from the big-buck Bavarian was surprisingly smooth." ?Josh Sadlier" Edmund's

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Response from mkaresh

11:19 am August 24, 2018

FWIW the press car I tested last month still had these subtle creaks in the window or door seals. I noticed a similar issue with the second-gen Genesis (now G80). It's possible that the right lubricant will eliminate them. VW provided a lubricant for the seals on the Eos, but IIRC it was somewhat expensive for such a thing.

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Response from danlisahall

2:30 pm August 24, 2018

Creaks around the seals? I was able to largely solve that problem in my 3 Del Sols (yes I have issues) using a silicone gel applied generously to the seals. The silicone gel is an excellent product for conditioning and preserving all sorts of rubber (natural & synthetic) gaskets. I tube lasts forever so I haven't had to buy one for a long time but I believe the cost is > $10.

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Response from AcuraT

4:53 pm August 25, 2018

NormT because it was a quick fix does not necessiarly make it half-baked as you claim. All it means it is easy to fix.

GM cars have the same thing happening to them upon launch - all brands do. Not all fixes are a major undertaking. Did you know norm there was a glitch in the GM Intellilink system that Chevy, Buick, and GMC uses (they share the same software as Cadlliac uses slightly different code to support CUE) that they "beamed" to the cars like Tesla as GM has limited use of that same airwave technology? Does that mean that system was 'half-baked' according to your definition of a rattle?

The software fix came out a couple of weeks after it was discovered (the screen would freeze in some cars when a certain pattern of commands were put in). Then GM just put the code out and it was beamed to cars that could accept it that way through the OnStar technology. For cars that could not get it that way, GM put a bulletin out so the software could be loaded onto the car during a scheduled dealer visit.

The problem is if we use your defination of 'half-baked' then every brand is guility of that. This is the result of the use of six-sigma - rapid troubleshooting of issues that effect large volumes of people and launching a fix for everyone. Tesla does it over the airways and GM does as well as the first major manufactuer able to do it (albiet only for the Intellilink dashboard system). Other manufacturers are talking about it right now. It is what is coming - the wave of the future starting now.

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Response from LectroFuel

2:15 pm August 26, 2018

I agree 100% with AcuraT. When you point out these specific problems that are known to the manufacturer within the first model year, it doesn't really mean much. Wait until the second year. I can't believe a lot of manufacturers still haven't followed Tesla with performing over the air updates, especially when most infotainment systems are terrible compared to smartphones. We are developing autonomous cars, but we still don't have OTA updates in 80% of cars being sold.

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Response from AcuraT

10:17 pm August 26, 2018

Lectrofuel you are right. It is coming for others, but they still do their updates in the delaership. Tesla caught everyone off guard so they are rushing to catch up. The only manufacturer that had something in the works was GM - probably because their OnStar unit has been around since the late 1990s (1996). Probably why they already have limited ability to do it now, as it does take some time to develop that technolgy.

Great example - Uverse by Chrysler was on TV being hacked remotely by those who were proving they could control the car remotely (turn on the radio, turn signal, put the car in reverse if it was parked - pranks like these). They told Chrysler and the media, and Chrysler put a patch out - by sending a USB stick to owners or telling them to come into the dealership for an update. It is coming, but it takes time to develop it. Tesla had years as Musk was thinking forward (I give him credit for that). I think he is backwards in some ways (like the chances he is taking with self-driving cars), but in that way he was successful.

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Response from NormT

8:34 am August 28, 2018

I'm talking hardware, not software as half-baked. OTA is not going solve physical structural issues with a vehicle.

Cadillac CUE is based on Linux while Intelilink is based on BlackBerry QNX. Automotive Linux Leaves Microsoft and Blackberry QNX in the Dust - The Linux Foundation

Automotive Linux Leaves Microsoft and Blackberry QNX in the Dust - The Linux Foundation

Sales of automotive Linux are expected to rise to 53.7 million units in 2020, overtaking Microsoft and Blackberry QNX in...

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Response from AcuraT

8:44 am August 28, 2018

Norm, yes, the OS is different for the two but if you worked in technology you would know that the code was "ported" over to form the basis of the other system.

And no, "half baked" for GM applies to hardware and software. When GM put the flap door on the first generation Volt so that it swung open, it was designed in such a way that in ice it froze shut - not allowing the person to charge the car. GM redesigned the flap in year two of production so that it would no longer freeze shut in cold weather.

You can try to defend GM but like I said, they all make mistakes. I worked for them as a quality consultant back in 2005-2006 so I have contacts there and I know all about the issues they have (as well as at Nissan and a couple of others as my company consulted in quality to a number of the auto manufactuers from 2002-2009). They all adopted six sigma in a different ways to varying degrees of success, some better than others.

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Response from NormT

10:35 am August 28, 2018

A weather flap is not the same as as the structure of the car like door when closed or the opening for a sunroof. Not sure if the sunroof glass doesnt have felt around it or why the door would flex with the chassis when closed. These basic underpinnings of a car and should not problems with them today.

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Response from LectroFuel

4:11 pm August 30, 2018

Ah, it looks like GM is back to the good ol' 90s in terms of quality. This same vibe is felt in a lot of GM SUVs. This comparison was posted this week.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-chevy-traverse-comparison

"Online editor Andrew Wendler wrote of the Traverse that it "feels trucky . . . a familiar, comfortable vibe, like something involving water skis and grilling is gonna happen before the weekend is over." He also compared it with an Astro van. It just drives big in this crowd. And the ride isn't all that great: Over single bumps, the Traverse suffers from more wheel judder than either of the other two vehicles. Over uglier stuff, the difference is more stark. Here and there on 556, we ran into stretches of mild washboard. Chattering over these stretches at speed, the Chevy's whole structure shuddered, the doors hammering away in their openings like the blades of a helicopter flaring for landing. The Subaru's doors rattled slightly. The Mazda's? Not even a hint of noise or movement. You'd think they were welded shut. And the noise of the gravel pinging off the Chevy's undercarriage and wheel wells betrayed a lack of sound deadening compared with the Japanese entries.
The Traverse's interior, too, feels cheaper than those of the others. The contrast-stitched leather dash and upper door panels are nice, but the black plastics used below the beltline give the impression that there's an edge lurking somewhere in here that you could cut a finger on. Both the Mazda and the Subaru show clear evidence of care and expenditure in their interior materials and designs; while the Chevrolet has its highlights and richer touchpoints, it lacks the cohesive feel and consistent quality of the others."

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Response from AcuraT

9:35 pm August 30, 2018

Lectrofuel, be careful with those reviews. I read the magazine article, they got the "performance" RS model, which no one buys. Why? Because the Traverse is not a performance car. They buy the more luxurious Premier or the LT Leather but few buy that model. Who wants a two ton performance car?

They also pointed out while it fell behind in every subjective test, it won every performance test (so I guess the performance package does something).

"So we dinged it in the subjective categories, but the Traverse was our numbers champion. The three vehicles were neck and neck in every performance test, but the Chevy managed moral victories in acceleration and braking and on the skidpad. When we tallied fuel economy at the end of our 1000-mile odyssey, it won that, too."

In fact, when you took away in the magazine the subjective score of 20 points, where they heavily penalized the Chevy, giving it a 5 while giving the Mazda a 19 out of 20, that was the difference in the scores. You remove that one objective opinion, and all of a sudden the Chevy is in a tie for the lead with the Subaru (the Mazda then took third).

I am not saying the review is wrong - but in this case I felt it was a little flawed. One for picking a model that no one buys (at least, no one in the last generation bought the RS), and then weighing the final field so heavily they artificially created a winner.

Then again, they don't look at reliabliity at Car and Driver - the Mazda is terrible according to Consumer Reports with a much below average for 2017 scoring 60 overall. Brakes, body integirty, and electronics all average or worse after one year. The Traverse in 2017 scored a 67 and its reliablity was average after one year - and only average (its worse score) in only one catagory - brakes.

The only point is - different magainzes value different things. Reviews are biased. I for one put much more into reliablity and test drives than what any magainze tells me. For example, The Kia Stinger is a great car to drive, but that back seat drove myself and my kids crazy (eliminated that hatchback immediately). Car magazine reviews besides Consumer Reports rarely even commented on it.

I think we all can agree the magainzes have their biases including Consumer Reports. The trick is understanding that and not taking their words for face value all the time.

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Response from AcuraT

9:42 pm August 30, 2018

Norm, you keep telling yourself that "A weather flap is not the same as as the structure of the car like door when closed or the opening for a sunroof."

They are both design flaws, plain and simple. It happens to all. Did you know on the Chevy Equinox there have been reports of shattering glass on the enlarged sunroof? That on the Toyota Highlander there have been reports of shattered glass by the sunroof? That for the Mazda CX-9 there have been reports of shattered glas by the sunroof? In fact, this is a problem across the industry because pretty much there is one supplier and exterme temperatures as of late have caused some sunroofs to shatter on many brands. Is that a sloppy defect by each manufactuer? I don't think so.

Maybe we should call the recall GM has on the Chevy Equinox and Terrian sloppy? In that case, the driveshaft can fail and the vehicle can run over someone if the brake is not set. Very sloppy GM!

https://www.carprousa.com/gm-recalls-2018-chevy-equinoxterrain-2017-18-acadia

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Response from LectroFuel

2:09 pm September 1, 2018

I do think the Subaru should have won the comparison because C and D is all about the most fun and luxurious car, and they are biased for that reason. The Traverse RS is not the "performance" version of the Traverse lineup. They don't have one. The only thing that is different mechanically from the other Traverses is the turbo 4 engine. There is nothing changed with the chassis according to the online configurator. All the SUVs had 20 inch tires. Every engine they compared was a turbo, but the Traverse only has only one trim that comes with a turbo engine. That was their mistake. I think the V6 would have performed even better in the Traverse if they had a High Country or Premier. The V6 is obviously their volume seller. Peak torque comes in lower in the V6 for some reason and has 50 more HP, 30 less lb ft torque than the turbo 4. The Traverse is similar in price to the other two SUVs tested.

In every comparison the SUVs performed similarly, the Chevy being the winner in most of them. They gave the Traverse a subjective score in the "fun to drive" section 15 points, not 5. If they eliminated that subjective section, the Mazda would have won by 2 points. The Chevy would be second, and the Subaru would be last. In the end, the scores came out to be very close.

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Response from AcuraT

9:31 am September 2, 2018

Lectrofuel, a little history lesson for you since you don't know what RS stands for.

Chevy brought out the RS designation back in the 1960s with the Chevy Camaro. It was called the 1968 Chevy Camaro RS (stands for Rally Sport) and back then it did have configuration changes to make it more sporty.

Fast forward to the 1980s when GM started falling behind in quality and was not making as much money (plus the gas shortages of the 1970s were still fresh in people's minds). Not many cars had the RS designation and the ones they did, were starting to get watered down with fewer configuration changes.

Today, GM plasters RS on a number of models. They have put it on the Cruze, Camaro, Equinox, and now the Traverse. Today all it means for the most part is a different engine (the turbo four in this case), blacked out siding (like this one had), a slightly tighter suspension tune (which is why it does not ride quite as well and all of sudden wins performance numbers) and a few other minor changes on the interior furbishment. You are right - you are not going to find many changes as GM has watered down the RS designation. Now for the performance cars that they have they use other designations, particularly on the Camaro. Terms like "ZL1" and "1LE" is now the track package for the really modified cars - changes like back in 1968 the RS stood for.

So yes, this is the "performance" vesion of the Traverse. Maybe you don't believe it, but it is. I also double checked with one of my engineer friends at GM and he confirmed what I said RS stands for Rally Sport and minor changes to make it more sporty.

Sorry I mistated the scores - I did it from memory and I should not have done that. But you do point out my problem with it - the magazine is very subjective and it does change the results around based on that with one field and a heavy weighting of it.

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Response from LectroFuel

6:12 pm September 2, 2018

I know what RS stands for because my wife had a 1969 Camaro RS. Back then, the Camaro RS was an appearance package like it is on this Traverse (with the exception of the 2.0T). It depends on what you consider "performance" is. Chevy deleted two cylinders and some HP while adding some torque, black wheels, badging, and black plastic accents. I don't consider that to be a "performance" model. It is like when you have a Toyota Yaris SE. There are more stylish wheels, but the performance numbers are the same. It is a different style from the normal Yaris, but that doesn't make it a performance Yaris, or even a sportier Yaris.

It seems like they are watering down the "RS" name because it doesn't seem like they did anything to the car except put in a 4 cylinder engine and add some "sporty" styling. The engine doesn't even make it quicker or more efficient. It lowers the tow rating to 1500 lbs from 5000 lbs.I looked at 6 websites on the RS and nothing said Chevy did anything to the suspension or handling. Have you found anything online that proves me wrong?

I agree the magazines are biased towards whatever car is more like a sports car even though many people are not looking for sports car handling. That is where CR and TrueDelta win.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2018-chevy-traverse-rs-first-drive-review/

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Response from AcuraT

9:52 pm September 2, 2018

It is not published by GM unfortuantely according to the engineer I talked to. It was only what he calls a "tweaking" to the suspension so the ride quality suffer a little for a slight gain in handling. The only thing you can do is compare in a magazine the track results of the RS to the other equipment levels. That you could not know and I would not know either except I asked him that question (he lives nearby). I try not to bother him much with questions but this is something I asked him about a few years ago (I assume it still holds true today on this model, particlarly since it is the only model with a different engine).

You are right - they are watering down the name as the RS does not mean what it used to back in the 1960s. I think they must have realized that as the real perfomance versions are only on the Camero now, and have"ZL1" and "1LE". When those are on the track, they compete with the AMD Mercedes for a fraction of the price (and don't have the refinement either of those very costly sports cars).

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Response from NormT

12:42 pm September 6, 2018

AcuraT, doesn't mean theauto manufacturer made the product. Most of the parts are supplier parts like the tempered panoroof glass or a CV axle.

But when a Subaru Ascent makes it to the customer without critical welds and has to be bought back from the customer then some heads should roll along all of the processes that missed this.

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Response from AcuraT

1:45 pm September 6, 2018

Norm, Or when theChevy Equinox and Terrian sloppy run over someone... maybe heads should roll there too?

https://www.carprousa.com/gm-recalls-2018-chevy-equinoxterrain-2017-18-acadia

Again, mistakes happen - every manufacturer makes them. You give me a manufacturer, I will find severe mistakes made - they all do it (they try to avoid it, but cars are complicated - even Toyota has these types of mistakes in the new Camry).

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Response from LectroFuel

8:09 pm September 6, 2018

Don't forget that GM killed 124 people and injured 274 others because they didn't do anything about the reports of cars malfunctioning and crashing. Mind you, this was over a cheap, simple ignition switch. The supplier of the ignition switches told GM that there was a problem with the parts they were supplying them with, but they continued using them for 13 years!

Meanwhile, my Prius was recalled yesterday for a wiring harness that could catch fire. Most cars have recalls. There are four recalls for the 2016 Envision, one for loss of braking, despite having been sold in China for two years before U.S. sales started.

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Response from NormT

9:45 pm September 6, 2018

There is a difference between defective parts of a car and defective installation. There's also defective drivers or AKA pedal misapplication in Toyota sudden-acceleration or at least that's what they told everybody or excessive pounds of weight on a key ring.

I had a CTS V with that key and I still have my Saturn Sky with the old style ignition key which includes key ring house key and fob. Even jumping us set of railroad tracks by work would not fault the ignition key both cars also were autocross and raced on the track with no problem with the key ignition or the acessories on the key that are now 10-years old or older. But when we were sitting at a stoplight in my wife's 2012 Forester I pulled down on her pepper spray on her key ring and it shut the car off or a simulated catching of a pant leg clothing or leg warmers while she was laughing then she was not afterwards. It is easy to do.

Notice in your for recalls on the Buick Envision that one is a improper placed label or missing label a 4,500 cars and and over 300 bent brake lines which is probably the root cause of a improper installation because I don't believe they monitor and pressure test every brake line and can follow it through installation to attach it to a VIN.

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